Steve Jobs and John Lasseter interview on Pixar (1996)

1996-10-3021:02English

Transcript

Machine transcript in the original language. It may contain errors. Select a timestamp to play that moment.

Toy Story made history last year as the first computer-generated full-length feature film.
The film earned over $192 million domestically, more than $300 million internationally.
It will soon be released on home video.
Its technology and success have revolutionized the business of animation
and opened the door to endless possibility between Hollywood and the Silicon Valley.
Joining me now, Academy Award-winning director John Lasseter.
He led the innovative team from Pixar Animation that brought the film to life.
Also, Pixar's chairman and CEO, Steve Jobs.
He introduced computers to the ordinary user when he co-founded Apple Computers.
He currently heads Next Software, and I'm pleased to have both of them here to talk about what's happening in the world of animation
and this marvelous relationship between film and computers producing animation.
Welcome.
Thanks, Charlie.
Let me start with you, Don.
Okay.
as a director.
What's going on?
I mean, what does Pixar do that's so extraordinary?
I think what Pixar does that's so extraordinary is that we have taken a look at this new technology,
computer animation, and we don't look at it as a way to replace any of the creativity
or any of the real art of filmmaking.
We still, we look at it as these are just great, new, expensive pencils.
You know, that's what it says.
It's artists using these computers as though, you know, an artist at Disney uses a piece of paper and a pencil.
Because the focus of what we do is still where it's most important, and that's with the story and the characters.
I think Toy Story is a success, not because it's computer generated.
It's a success because it has, you know, the characters of Buzz Lightyear and Woody
and in the storyline that really has captivated audiences.
But the question still is, what did animation, what could you do because of new technology
and how faster and how less expensive than the old way?
What's interesting is I think when computers come into any kind of...
Does it give you, let me interrupt myself, more creative freedom in a sense to roll
because the technology allows you that.
Well, it's two aspects of what you asked.
One, what's interesting is it's a very common belief that when computers come into a new artistic medium,
that something is either less expensive, takes less time, or it's going to replace something.
It reminds me a lot of when photography was invented.
Everybody thought that painting was going to get replaced.
And that is something that really just won't happen.
What computer animation does is it has a whole new look.
But the key word is animation.
Animation, by definition, is making a motion picture frame by frame by frame by frame.
And that doesn't change.
We labor over every single frame.
And so I worked on Toy Story for over four years.
The full production was two and a half years.
The difference between Toy Story and Lion King or Pocahontas or Hunchback...
Yeah, what is the difference?
The difference is that we used a lot less people.
Well, that's my point.
It made it more efficient to do.
Yeah, and also we were a much smaller studio. We were kind of, you know, a leaner sort of group.
Does it look any better on the screen?
Well, that is something for the viewer to choose. It looks different.
How does it look different?
It's more dimensional. What excited me about this medium, I was trained as a traditional animator.
I love Disney animation. I love, you know, Warner Brothers cartoons. That's what I grew up on, you know.
And I got really excited about animation.
I was trained as a traditional animator, drawing, design, all that.
But what excited me when I first saw my first computer animation back in about 1981 was that it was three-dimensional.
You were able to create a world that was totally dimensional.
You were able to move in and around objects, which you had never been able to do in hand-drawn animation.
And so, therefore, that got me so excited.
And I think what Toy Story was different on is what made it unique is that we chose a subject matter,
toys being alive, that really lent itself beautifully to the medium.
How did you, sir?
What have I got to do with this?
Exactly.
I mean, you know, you're a guy who founds high-tech companies and tries to make another billion dollars.
Yeah, well, I don't think of myself that way, but I wish I could do it.
Stop, stop, stop.
How do you think of yourself?
I mean, after Apple, after Next, how do you think of yourself?
You know, the things that I've done in my life, I think the things we do now at Pixar, these are team sports.
You know, they're not something that one person does.
We've got, you have to have an extraordinary team because these are, these are, you're trying to climb a mountain with a whole party of people.
A lot of stuff to bring up the mountain.
So one person can't do it.
And I first got involved in this when I heard about this incredible group of computer graphics specialists that George Lucas had assembled at Lucasfilm that he wanted to sell.
And so I went up there and saw what they were doing, and I met the leader of this group, Dr. Ed Catmull.
And Ed told me about his dream, which was to make the first computer animated feature film someday, and showed me what this team was working on.
and I was blown away.
I spent a lot of time in computer graphics with the Macintosh
and the Laser Rider and stuff,
but this was way beyond anything I'd seen.
And so I bought into that dream,
both spiritually, if you will, and financially,
and we bought the computer division from George
and incorporated it as Pixar.
John was there from the very start.
Ed was there, and we were joined by other people along the way.
And it took us 10 years to do it,
What was so hard?
Oh, there were...
Good question, huh, John?
Yeah, that's a good question.
It took us a long time to build the technical foundation to do this stuff.
We were pioneering every step of the way.
Pixar invented all this stuff.
But as John says, we don't view ourselves as a technology company.
Our product is content.
We're an entertainment company.
And all this technology really is just in the service of the storytelling,
the service of the creative people.
And computer animation is even a little bit of a misnomer.
The computers don't do the animation. They do the drawing.
And they crank on these drawings for like, you know, three hours by one of the fastest computers in the world, which is why the drawings are three-dimensional.
But the animators act.
You know, I've watched John and his team work, and they are the heart and soul of the characters.
They do all the acting, not the computers.
Okay, but I'm going to just make sure I understand what you're saying.
I mean, I would think that people...
I mean, when I was telling you about my interest in what in the world is going on and where the future is headed,
And you said to me that's not what we're about and you would the point you want to make is that we're about entertainment
And we're about technology in the service of the entertainment that we create right we're about telling we're about putting stories into the culture
That's what we're about telling stories and you know and you've got a different paintbrush and you've got a different
Canvas than everybody else does or it's a more advanced it's a better. It's a more something but I
You know I'll let John speak to this, but I know a lot of people at pics our heroes are Disney
I mean, look at what they've done.
We've all got young children, and our kids watch these Disney films,

Transcript

Machine transcript in the original language. It may contain errors. Select a timestamp to play that moment.

Toy Story made history last year as the first computer-generated full-length feature film.

The film earned over $192 million domestically, more than $300 million internationally.

It will soon be released on home video.

Its technology and success have revolutionized the business of animation

and opened the door to endless possibility between Hollywood and the Silicon Valley.

Joining me now, Academy Award-winning director John Lasseter.

He led the innovative team from Pixar Animation that brought the film to life.

Also, Pixar's chairman and CEO, Steve Jobs.

He introduced computers to the ordinary user when he co-founded Apple Computers.

He currently heads Next Software, and I'm pleased to have both of them here to talk about what's happening in the world of animation

and this marvelous relationship between film and computers producing animation.

Welcome.

Thanks, Charlie.

Let me start with you, Don.

Okay.

as a director.

What's going on?

I mean, what does Pixar do that's so extraordinary?

I think what Pixar does that's so extraordinary is that we have taken a look at this new technology,

computer animation, and we don't look at it as a way to replace any of the creativity

or any of the real art of filmmaking.

We still, we look at it as these are just great, new, expensive pencils.

You know, that's what it says.

It's artists using these computers as though, you know, an artist at Disney uses a piece of paper and a pencil.

Because the focus of what we do is still where it's most important, and that's with the story and the characters.

I think Toy Story is a success, not because it's computer generated.

It's a success because it has, you know, the characters of Buzz Lightyear and Woody

and in the storyline that really has captivated audiences.

But the question still is, what did animation, what could you do because of new technology

and how faster and how less expensive than the old way?

What's interesting is I think when computers come into any kind of...

Does it give you, let me interrupt myself, more creative freedom in a sense to roll

because the technology allows you that.

Well, it's two aspects of what you asked.

One, what's interesting is it's a very common belief that when computers come into a new artistic medium,

that something is either less expensive, takes less time, or it's going to replace something.

It reminds me a lot of when photography was invented.

Everybody thought that painting was going to get replaced.

And that is something that really just won't happen.

What computer animation does is it has a whole new look.

But the key word is animation.

Animation, by definition, is making a motion picture frame by frame by frame by frame.

And that doesn't change.

We labor over every single frame.

And so I worked on Toy Story for over four years.

The full production was two and a half years.

The difference between Toy Story and Lion King or Pocahontas or Hunchback...

Yeah, what is the difference?

The difference is that we used a lot less people.

Well, that's my point.

It made it more efficient to do.

Yeah, and also we were a much smaller studio. We were kind of, you know, a leaner sort of group.

Does it look any better on the screen?

Well, that is something for the viewer to choose. It looks different.

How does it look different?

It's more dimensional. What excited me about this medium, I was trained as a traditional animator.

I love Disney animation. I love, you know, Warner Brothers cartoons. That's what I grew up on, you know.

And I got really excited about animation.

I was trained as a traditional animator, drawing, design, all that.

But what excited me when I first saw my first computer animation back in about 1981 was that it was three-dimensional.

You were able to create a world that was totally dimensional.

You were able to move in and around objects, which you had never been able to do in hand-drawn animation.

And so, therefore, that got me so excited.

And I think what Toy Story was different on is what made it unique is that we chose a subject matter,

toys being alive, that really lent itself beautifully to the medium.

How did you, sir?

What have I got to do with this?

Exactly.

I mean, you know, you're a guy who founds high-tech companies and tries to make another billion dollars.

Yeah, well, I don't think of myself that way, but I wish I could do it.

Stop, stop, stop.

How do you think of yourself?

I mean, after Apple, after Next, how do you think of yourself?

You know, the things that I've done in my life, I think the things we do now at Pixar, these are team sports.

You know, they're not something that one person does.

We've got, you have to have an extraordinary team because these are, these are, you're trying to climb a mountain with a whole party of people.

A lot of stuff to bring up the mountain.

So one person can't do it.

And I first got involved in this when I heard about this incredible group of computer graphics specialists that George Lucas had assembled at Lucasfilm that he wanted to sell.

And so I went up there and saw what they were doing, and I met the leader of this group, Dr. Ed Catmull.

And Ed told me about his dream, which was to make the first computer animated feature film someday, and showed me what this team was working on.

and I was blown away.

I spent a lot of time in computer graphics with the Macintosh

and the Laser Rider and stuff,

but this was way beyond anything I'd seen.

And so I bought into that dream,

both spiritually, if you will, and financially,

and we bought the computer division from George

and incorporated it as Pixar.

John was there from the very start.

Ed was there, and we were joined by other people along the way.

And it took us 10 years to do it,

What was so hard?

Oh, there were...

Good question, huh, John?

Yeah, that's a good question.

It took us a long time to build the technical foundation to do this stuff.

We were pioneering every step of the way.

Pixar invented all this stuff.

But as John says, we don't view ourselves as a technology company.

Our product is content.

We're an entertainment company.

And all this technology really is just in the service of the storytelling,

the service of the creative people.

And computer animation is even a little bit of a misnomer.

The computers don't do the animation. They do the drawing.

And they crank on these drawings for like, you know, three hours by one of the fastest computers in the world, which is why the drawings are three-dimensional.

But the animators act.

You know, I've watched John and his team work, and they are the heart and soul of the characters.

They do all the acting, not the computers.

Okay, but I'm going to just make sure I understand what you're saying.

I mean, I would think that people...

I mean, when I was telling you about my interest in what in the world is going on and where the future is headed,

And you said to me that's not what we're about and you would the point you want to make is that we're about entertainment

And we're about technology in the service of the entertainment that we create right we're about telling we're about putting stories into the culture

That's what we're about telling stories and you know and you've got a different paintbrush and you've got a different

Canvas than everybody else does or it's a more advanced it's a better. It's a more something but I

You know I'll let John speak to this, but I know a lot of people at pics our heroes are Disney

I mean, look at what they've done.

We've all got young children, and our kids watch these Disney films,